We are grateful to Dunagun Kaiser and the team at Liberty and Finance for hosting Andrew Winnett, Certified Financial Fiduciary and founder of Retirement Renegade, for what turned out to be one of the most wide-ranging and practical conversations about retirement protection we have had on camera. Liberty and Finance covers the intersection of financial freedom, precious metals, and economic preparedness — and the conversation they hosted with Andrew covered The Great Taking, the next Great Depression, and one solution most people have a visceral reaction to when they first hear it.
Key Takeaways
- Annuities are one of the best solutions to The Great Taking, the upcoming Great Depression, market volatility, and high fees — but only the right kind
- There are nine different kinds of annuities — only three are worth considering
- Variable annuities are pulled through the Depository Trust Company and are vulnerable to The Great Taking — Retirement Renegade does not recommend them
- The right annuities are legally not allowed to be pulled through the DTC — they exist outside the Great Taking structure
- The right annuities allow participation in up to 70% of market upside with zero downside — if the market goes negative you get zero, not a loss
- Wall Street makes 8 to 10 times more putting your money in the market than selling you a safe product — that is why your advisor discourages annuities
- Not one A+ rated life and annuity company has failed since 1900 — including through the first Great Depression
- Babe Ruth moved all of his money into annuities before the Great Depression — while Yankees teammates were in soup lines he was earning the equivalent of $250,000 per year
- Gold, silver, land, and the right annuities are Andrew’s recommended protection strategy for what is coming
- Stream The Retirement Reset free at retirementrenegade.com/reset — promo code CLARITY
Thank You to Liberty and Finance
Liberty and Finance has built one of the most trusted audiences in the alternative finance and precious metals space — an audience that understands economic risk, questions the mainstream financial narrative, and is actively preparing for what is coming. We were honored to sit down with Dunagun for this conversation and grateful for the platform to share the Retirement Renegade perspective with their community.
If you found this interview through Liberty and Finance — welcome. Everything discussed in this conversation connects directly to the work Retirement Renegade has been doing for 17 years and the documentary film Andrew produced, The Retirement Reset.
Real Estate — The Important Caveat
Before the annuity conversation Andrew addressed real estate — one of the most commonly cited alternatives to market-based retirement savings.
Real estate will always retain value over the long term. But the key word is long term. If values drop 20% over the next ten years, the question every retiree needs to ask is: will that shipwreck me? Will I be able to hold through that decline without being forced to sell at the wrong time?
For pre-retirees with a long enough time horizon, land and real estate remain strong. For retirees who need income now or within the next five years, real estate requires much more careful positioning in the overall plan.
The Annuity Conversation Nobody Is Having
Wall Street has done a remarkable job conditioning Americans to have a negative reaction to the word annuity. Andrew acknowledged that reaction directly — and then explained why it is based on a fundamental confusion between the nine different types of annuities that exist.
There are bad annuities. Variable annuities — the kind most people have heard negative things about — are pulled through the Depository Trust Company. They carry high fees, can lose money, and are vulnerable to The Great Taking. Retirement Renegade does not recommend them and does not touch them.
There are also good annuities. The specific types Andrew recommends are legally structured outside the DTC — they cannot be pulled into the pooled structure that makes retirement accounts vulnerable under UCC Article 8. They allow participation in up to 70% of market upside with zero downside exposure. If the market drops 30% you get zero — not a loss. Zero is the hero.
And here is the part most advisors will never tell you: the commission paid to the advisor who sells you these products does not come out of your money. Wall Street makes 8 to 10 times more managing your money in market accounts and charging ongoing fees than selling you a safe product. That is why your advisor discourages them. Not because they are bad for you. Because they are bad for the advisor’s fee stream.
Over $1 trillion in annuities have been purchased in America over the last three years. Fidelity, Schwab, Morgan Stanley, and LPL all recommend annuities on their websites. But when you sit down with an individual advisor they will steer you away — because the individual advisor does not get paid as much.
Not One A+ Rated Life and Annuity Company Has Failed Since 1900
This is the statistic that most surprises people when they first hear it.
Not one A+ rated life and annuity company has failed since 1900. Through the first Great Depression. Through World War II. Through the 2008 Global Financial Crisis. Through every market crash and economic disruption in the last 125 years.
The reason is structural. A+ rated life and annuity companies are required by law to keep surplus cash on hand in the safest, lowest-volatility investments available — treasuries, AAA rated corporate bonds, cash equivalents, and in some cases mortgages on major commercial properties. They are the last domino to fall in an Armageddon scenario — because they have been designed specifically to survive exactly that scenario.
The AIG question comes up often. AIG was an A+ rated life and annuity company — but the division that failed in 2008 was not the life and annuity subsidiary. It was the mutual fund division based out of London that was selling mortgage-backed securities. The life and annuity subsidiary of AIG remained completely profitable through the entire Global Financial Crisis. The government bailed out the mutual fund division — an unprecedented action — and AIG paid the government back with interest. The life and annuity side never needed the bailout.
Babe Ruth and the Great Depression
Babe Ruth’s financial advisor saw the warning signs before the 1929 crash. He was persistent — and eventually convinced Babe to move all of his money into annuities before the market collapsed.
When the market crashed and New York Yankees teammates were in soup lines having lost everything, Babe Ruth did not lose one penny. He was earning the equivalent of $250,000 per year in today’s dollars through guaranteed annuity income during the worst economic period in American history.
The pattern repeats. Shaq is a fan. The people who understand what these products actually do — guaranteed income for life, guaranteed growth opportunity with no downside, no fees, liquidity, and tax efficiency — tend to become advocates.
Not because annuities are exciting. Because they work.
Andrew’s Overall Protection Strategy
Summarizing the full conversation Andrew’s recommended protection framework for what is coming:
Gold and silver — strong fan for a portion of savings
Real estate and land — strong for those with a long enough time horizon to hold through a potential 20% decline
Crypto — personally not a fan as a long-term hedge despite having done well in it
Annuities — a major piece of both pre-tax and after-tax funds for anyone serious about protecting against The Great Taking and the next Great Depression
The goal is not picking the single best asset class. The goal is building a structure that protects your retirement income from the multiple converging forces — market volatility, custodial risk, economic depression, and legal vulnerability in retirement account structures — that are all moving in the same direction at the same time.
Thank You Again to Liberty and Finance
Thank you to Dunagun Kaiser and the entire Liberty and Finance team for the thoughtful conversation and the platform. If you are a Liberty and Finance viewer visiting Retirement Renegade for the first time — welcome. Use promo code LIBERTY at retirementrenegade.com/liberty for free streaming access to The Retirement Reset.
The film raises the questions. A free Clarity Session answers them for your specific retirement situation.
Book your free Clarity Session → retirementrenegade.com/retirement-plan-clarity-session
Stream The Retirement Reset free — promo code CLARITY → retirementrenegade.com/the-retirement-reset
Take legislative action → retirementrenegade.com/is-my-money-protected
FAQs
Andrew discussed The Great Taking, the next Great Depression, annuities as a protection strategy, real estate, gold and silver, crypto, and how to protect retirement savings from the converging economic forces heading toward 2030. He also shared how to watch The Retirement Reset free and how to take legislative action at ismymoneyprotected.com.
The Great Taking refers to the legal framework built into UCC Article 8 that gives banks and custodians legal priority over your retirement savings if they fail. Your savings are pooled through the Depository Trust Company making you an entitlement holder rather than a private property owner. If your custodian fails they get paid back first. You get what is left.
Andrew referenced nine different types but did not name all nine in this interview. The key distinction is between variable annuities — which are pulled through the DTC and vulnerable to The Great Taking — and fixed and fixed indexed annuities — which are legally structured outside the DTC. Retirement Renegade only recommends three of the nine types.
Three out of nine. Specifically the types that are legally structured outside the Depository Trust Company — meaning they cannot be pulled into the pooled structure that creates vulnerability under UCC Article 8. These include fixed annuities and fixed indexed annuities that offer guaranteed income, guaranteed growth opportunity, no downside exposure, low fees, liquidity, and tax efficiency.
Variable annuities are investment-based annuities whose value fluctuates with market performance. They are pulled through the Depository Trust Company making them vulnerable to The Great Taking. They carry high fees, can lose money, and offer none of the protection that makes the right annuities valuable. Retirement Renegade does not recommend them and will not touch them.
The fixed and fixed indexed annuities Retirement Renegade recommends are legally not allowed to be pulled through the Depository Trust Company. They exist outside the DTC structure entirely — meaning the UCC Article 8 priority given to custodians in a failure event does not apply to them.
It means you can participate in up to 70% of market gains when the market goes up — but if the market goes negative you get zero, not a loss. Zero is your hero. Your principal is protected. You do not participate in the downside.
Because Wall Street makes 8 to 10 times more money putting your money in the market and charging ongoing management fees than selling you a safe annuity product. The commission on the right annuity products does not even come out of your money — it comes from the insurance company. Individual advisors steer clients away from annuities because they personally make significantly less from them, not because annuities are bad for the client.
Eight to ten times more. That is the financial incentive driving most advisors to recommend market-based accounts over safe annuity products — even though Fidelity, Schwab, Morgan Stanley, and LPL all recommend annuities on their own websites.
No. Not one A+ rated life and annuity company has failed since 1900 — through the first Great Depression, World War II, the 2008 Global Financial Crisis, and every other major economic disruption in the last 125 years. A+ rated companies are required by law to keep surplus cash on hand in the safest low-volatility investments available.
AIG is a parent company with multiple subsidiary divisions. The division that failed in 2008 was the mutual fund division based out of London that was selling mortgage-backed securities — not the life and annuity subsidiary. The government bailed out the mutual fund division in an unprecedented action and AIG paid it back with interest. AIG's life and annuity subsidiary remained completely profitable through the entire Global Financial Crisis because it was legally required to hold surplus cash in safe low-volatility investments.
Babe Ruth's financial advisor saw the warning signs before the 1929 crash and persistently convinced Babe to move all of his money into annuities before the market collapsed. When the crash came and New York Yankees teammates were in soup lines having lost everything, Babe Ruth did not lose one penny. He was earning the equivalent of $250,000 per year in today's dollars through guaranteed annuity income throughout the entire Great Depression.
It can be — with an important caveat. Real estate will always retain value over the long term. But if values drop 20% over the next ten years the key question is whether you can hold through that decline without being forced to sell at the wrong time. Andrew is a fan of land specifically for those with a long enough time horizon. For retirees who need income now it requires careful positioning.
Personally not a fan as a long-term hedge despite having done well in it himself. He has done extensive research on crypto and Bitcoin and does not consider it a solid long-term investment for retirement protection. He acknowledges it is a personal opinion.
Gold and silver for a portion of savings. Real estate and land for those with a long enough time horizon. The right annuities — fixed and fixed indexed, outside the DTC — as a major piece of both pre-tax and after-tax funds. Crypto personally not recommended as a long-term hedge.
Gold and silver for a portion of savings. Real estate and land for those with a long enough time horizon. The right annuities — fixed and fixed indexed, outside the DTC — as a major piece of both pre-tax and after-tax funds. Crypto personally not recommended as a long-term hedge.
Go to retirementrenegade.com/reset and use promo code CLARITY at checkout for free instant access. Watch on any device anytime.
Liberty and Finance LLC Founder and CEO, Dunagun Kaiser, built a 35+ year engineering career with Fortune 100 companies solving challenges in extreme material handling, industrial automation, and applied physical sciences. Liberty and Finance is a financial media platform covering economic freedom, precious metals, and alternative investing strategies for people preparing for economic uncertainty. Andrew Winnett joined Dunagun Kaiser for his first appearance on the show to discuss The Great Taking, annuities, and retirement protection strategies.
A free 15-minute conversation with a Certified Financial Fiduciary. Your retirement. Your situation. What is protected and what is not. No obligation. Book a free Clarity Session at retirementrenegade.com/retirement-plan-clarity-session to understand the specific carve-outs available for your situation.
Visit retirementrenegade.com/clarity to book your free 15-minute session with one of our certified financial fiduciaries.
